Curse

Gimme Money Plzkthx · Apr 08, 2007, 07:03 PM // 19:03

OK, why are people still using GoLE instead of channeling? I mean, I didn't think it was very good pre-nerf, but now it doesn't take a mathematical genius to figure out that it sucks, and yet most monks use it. It seems to me that the monks that use it cannot keep their energy up and/or just plain suck. Why are some things "meta" when they cannot compete with other skills?

TheOneMephisto · Apr 08, 2007, 07:15 PM // 19:15

Because GoLE doesn't mess with your positioning? And some monks like making life hard for enemy warriors?

Channeling is better on altars, but in things like kill count where mobility is what you really want, GoLE is better.

Gimme Money Plzkthx · Apr 08, 2007, 07:25 PM // 19:25

Definitely doesn't seem like GoLE is better to me... nor does it really make life hard for enemy warriors, if they want to get you, they're going to come and get you.

God Apprentice · Apr 08, 2007, 07:33 PM // 19:33

Channeling is better. Let's say you Glyph, than use 2 skills. Now all of a sudden everyone is burning and a sin is spiking a char and you're the infuser. You will burn that energy quick infusing and sending out heals since you have already glyphed. Channeling would net a constant energy return that Glyph can't. In the long run the longer the battle the better Channeling will help you out, even in the event you are killed.

Gimme Money Plzkthx · Apr 08, 2007, 07:40 PM // 19:40

You also have to run 10e skills to take full advantage of glyph, or 15e skills before the nerf... I think (and thought before the nerf) that channeling is better, I just want some insight as to why people even THINK GoLE is better, even though whatever people say won't change my mind. Coincidentally, every single monk I've seen that runs glyph sucks and/or their team drops super fast, depending on how many monks on that team run it.

Thomas.knbk · Apr 08, 2007, 07:41 PM // 19:41

If you find a way for yourself to reliably get +3's from Channeling, definitely take it over GoLE. Otherwise, GoLE is probably better or you're spamming skills too much.

Polynikes of Sparta · Apr 08, 2007, 07:44 PM // 19:44

HA is usually bunched up, so yeah.

~Polynikes

TheOneMephisto · Apr 08, 2007, 07:46 PM // 19:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gimme Money Plzkthx

Definitely doesn't seem like GoLE is better to me... nor does it really make life hard for enemy warriors, if they want to get you, they're going to come and get you.

The farther away you are, the farther the enemy warriors have to run, the closer the enemy monks have to run to heal the warriors, the closer the enemy monks are to your warriors/shutdown.

God Apprentice · Apr 08, 2007, 07:46 PM // 19:46

Well like I said say you're running Glyph and get killed. When you rez you Glyph again but in the meantime your energy is going back up at normal pip rate. Now let's say you're running Channeling. You die and when you rez you cast it and get off a couple of spells. The energy gain (with good positioning I must stress) will be more significant that normal regen/glyph. I reason that Glyph is carried because of current HA mechanics having splits on the AB format, where Glyph can be an alternative. But as Thomas said, if you can get a good positioning with Channeling, better to take that than Glyph.

Gimme Money Plzkthx · Apr 08, 2007, 07:57 PM // 19:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheOneMephisto

The farther away you are, the farther the enemy warriors have to run, the closer the enemy monks have to run to heal the warriors, the closer the enemy monks are to your warriors/shutdown.

I don't quite follow. Both teams should have to do that anyway, and any monks with channeling have to go into the other team, so surely one team will be on top of the other no matter what. Also, by your reasoning, if the entire other team has to move up on you since you're carrying glyph, then channeling would be a better option since they are intermingled with your team (there are other ways to accomplish than using glyph and staying back). My simple point is, chances are one team is going to run into the other and mesh with them anyway, so you might as well use channeling. Also, I'd rather have a monk with a load of energy that has to move up a bit than some monk far back (who, against a good team, will still be getting pounded on) with very little energy.

Living Parasite · Apr 08, 2007, 07:58 PM // 19:58

Channeling requires investment into another attribute (Althought not much) to be effective. GoLE does not. Channeling requires you to be next to the enemy to work at all and abandon your position behind objects against paraspikes. GoLE does not. GoLE overall is much easier to use, allowing you to focus on your job-healing. I do believe people can use channeling effectively but I don't think a monk's job needs to be any harder.

Mental Leteci · Apr 08, 2007, 08:04 PM // 20:04

E/Mo prot monk is teh solution!!!!111

I'm not even joking.

TheOneMephisto · Apr 08, 2007, 08:06 PM // 20:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gimme Money Plzkthx

I don't quite follow. Both teams should have to do that anyway, and any monks with channeling have to go into the other team, so surely one team will be on top of the other no matter what. Also, by your reasoning, if the entire other team has to move up on you since you're carrying glyph, then channeling would be a better option since they are intermingled with your team (there are other ways to accomplish than using glyph and staying back). My simple point is, chances are one team is going to run into the other and mesh with them anyway, so you might as well use channeling. Also, I'd rather have a monk with a load of energy that has to move up a bit than some monk far back (who, against a good team, will still be getting pounded on) with very little energy.

Both teams decidedly do not have to be on top of each other. Pressuring monks is not the only way to pressure.

I don't really care, as I don't play HA, but there's a difference between having your monk able to go wherever he wants and having your monk have to worry about trying to stay near/in the fray.

Nysidious · Apr 08, 2007, 08:13 PM // 20:13

I think People Used Gole For Basically Free Aegis Chains. But now i see channeling and Auspicious Incantation in the Near Future For Aegis Chain and HB Monks. >.> I still belive Hb Eles ftw <.<

God Apprentice · Apr 08, 2007, 08:13 PM // 20:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Living Parasite

Channeling requires investment into another attribute (Althought not much) to be effective. GoLE does not. Channeling requires you to be next to the enemy to work at all and abandon your position behind objects against paraspikes. GoLE does not. GoLE overall is much easier to use, allowing you to focus on your job-healing. I do believe people can use channeling effectively but I don't think a monk's job needs to be any harder.

Well actually Channeling is gained from foes "in the area" so you don't have to be too close to them to gain energy

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mental Leteci

E/Mo prot monk is teh solution!!!!111

I'm not even joking.

Hmm why not run a backline consisting of something other than monks (N/Mo don't count). Such as Ritualists. Restoration Magic has some nice skills that function as heals. Like say run a balance style build but sub in Rits for monks. It might be worth a try at least

Thomas.knbk · Apr 08, 2007, 08:23 PM // 20:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by God Apprentice

(with good positioning I must stress)

Not exactly.
When you're close enough, Channeling will net you more energy. Good positioning for a monk means 'NOT close to their damage dealers'. It means 'as far away from their melee as possible (without letting shit die)'. So, actually the only way to play Channeling effectively is with BAD positioning.
While with GoLE you can stay far away from their warriors, Channeling forces you to be closer to them. Therefore, if you use GoLE it takes them longer to reach you, which nets in damage rediction (much like Return: damage control through movement, which also results in less energy spent on healing/protting). Not to say Channeling is a bad skill. Not at all. If you know how to kite effectively, and your team doesn't die if you don't cast spells for a few seconds (the extra time spent kiting), it's probably a lot more effective than Glyph.
The things to consider here are:
-your build: does it even have 10e skills? If not, don't even consider GoLE.
-the other monk: is it someone you know and trust, or a pug monk you just met and secretly suspect of sucking and not being able to keep your team up when you're running away from a warrior.
-the metagame: in a thumper/pet heavy metagame channeling rules surpreme, because no matter what you'll always have shit close to you. In a 2 sin/2 ele/2 monk-like meta or whatever the 8v8 variant looks like (melees running around in your frontline and spiking every 20 seconds), it will not be as good.

Gimme Money Plzkthx · Apr 08, 2007, 08:27 PM // 20:27

Er, let me rephrase. I meant to go ahead and assume you have a decent/good team when running it. I see a lot of replies saying GoLE is easier, which it definitely is, which attracts crappy monks in addition to it being a poor skill, which leads to instant death. The way I see it, with a good team, your monks can afford the extra energy being up front, because even if they're in back, the enemy will almost certainly come at them at some point in the match.

TheOneMephisto · Apr 08, 2007, 08:47 PM // 20:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gimme Money Plzkthx

Er, let me rephrase. I meant to go ahead and assume you have a decent/good team when running it. I see a lot of replies saying GoLE is easier, which it definitely is, which attracts crappy monks in addition to it being a poor skill, which leads to instant death. The way I see it, with a good team, your monks can afford the extra energy being up front, because even if they're in back, the enemy will almost certainly come at them at some point in the match.

I would say look at your build and your players. If you have a good amount of off-monk defense and you have good players who know how to kite and mitigate damage well (aka you won't need energy as bad), I would suggest Glyph.

However, if you know that you're going to be hurting for energy and that your team isn't going to try and maintain proper positioning either way, use channeling.

Channeling gives you more energy in exchange for attribute points and more dangerous positioning.

Sunbear · Apr 08, 2007, 08:54 PM // 20:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas.knbk

Not exactly.
When you're close enough, Channeling will net you more energy. Good positioning for a monk means 'NOT close to their damage dealers'. It means 'as far away from their melee as possible (without letting shit die)'. So, actually the only way to play Channeling effectively is with BAD positioning.
While with GoLE you can stay far away from their warriors, Channeling forces you to be closer to them. Therefore, if you use GoLE it takes them longer to reach you, which nets in damage rediction (much like Return: damage control through movement, which also results in less energy spent on healing/protting). Not to say Channeling is a bad skill. Not at all. If you know how to kite effectively, and your team doesn't die if you don't cast spells for a few seconds (the extra time spent kiting), it's probably a lot more effective than Glyph.
The things to consider here are:
-your build: does it even have 10e skills? If not, don't even consider GoLE.
-the other monk: is it someone you know and trust, or a pug monk you just met and secretly suspect of sucking and not being able to keep your team up when you're running away from a warrior.
-the metagame: in a thumper/pet heavy metagame channeling rules surpreme, because no matter what you'll always have shit close to you. In a 2 sin/2 ele/2 monk-like meta or whatever the 8v8 variant looks like (melees running around in your frontline and spiking every 20 seconds), it will not be as good.

I disagree with you on the fact that you have to be in a "bad" position in order to use channeling effective. Also, I think it depends on what type of monk. To say that monks always have to be in the backline is incorrect. Melees who target you will come at you no matter what. In this case, channeling is better than GoLE. You may not have that extra second to cast glyph and then cast your spells, whereas you can derive energy gains from the nearby enemies with channeling.
Also, if you are the infuser, you probably wouldn't want to be near the front. But as a prot monk, you may want to be near your frontliners and midline casters. Therefore, for a prot monk, I feel that channeling could be very helpful.

Other things to consider, what other skills can you use from a /Me or a /E secondary. With /E, its pretty much, GoLE. Most of the other skills are not worth it. With /Me, there are many other options available. I personally like to run this bar with my infuser:
1. Words of Comfort
2. Orison of Healing
3. Dwayna's Kiss
4. Infuse
5. Light of Deliverance
6. Holy Veil
7. Hex Breaker
8. Channeling

14 Healing, 11 Divine, 7 or 8 channeling (can't remember exactly) and rest into domination.

Channeling comes into great effect in the Kill Count maps as there may often be as many as 8 opponents in a given area.
However, before the change to 8 man HA. I ran Mo/E prot monk with GoLE for the Aegis chain.
Again, I think GolE vs. Channeling is completely situational and one needs to be able t run both effectively.

I agree with you Thomas, that GoLE and channeling should be dependent on whether you trust your partner(s). I do daily runs with a guild monk for the past 3 months and we've gotten to know each other's style very well. With him, I was very comfortable running GoLE and trusting him to keep our teams alive.

Im In A Build · Apr 08, 2007, 08:55 PM // 20:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by God Apprentice

(with good positioning I must stress)

so good positioning is now being in the middle of everything? plololololol

i liked glyph because on kill count i can stay a good distance away from the ball of doom and still get things done

but now days everyone plays that thumper heavy crap where thel push on your face regardless cuz they got a hb nec spamming heal party every 2 secs so channeling +sod is great so i guess it just depends on the popular builds